Please Do Not Feed the Geese: A Five Question Guide to Giving and Taking Advice

I am, at heart, a tiresome nag complacently positive that there is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise.
— Gore Vidal

People don’t always need advice. Sometimes all they really need is a hand to hold, an ear to listen, and a heart to understand them.
— Unknown

A friend will give you good advice — and stand by you when you ignore it.
— Pamela Dugdale

This post was inspired by a conversation with my friend and fellow mental health blogger Aimee Wilson. Aimee described an article she was writing on the topic of advice, and it got me thinking. I’ve discussed giving and taking advice previously, in such posts as A Few Thoughts on Taking My Own Advice and How to Give Mental Health Help and Advice to People You Don’t Know. It’s a broad topic, though, and there are many aspects I’ve not covered before. In this post I’ll explore a few more, focusing on the following five questions.

• What does giving advice mean to you?
• How good (or bad) are you at taking advice?
• When is it appropriate to offer advice and when is it best not to?
• What is the best (or worst) advice you’ve ever received?
• Was there a time when your advice was really helpful to someone else?

I’ll answer each of these questions for myself, then share the thoughts of others who were generous enough to respond to my request for contributions.

What Does Giving Advice Mean to You?

I’ve always been wary of giving or asking for advice. Another person’s experience and wisdom can help us decide what to do, but no matter who you are or who you ask, advice is no more and no less than someone else’s opinion. Your doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, lawyer, and financial advisor may be — and hopefully are — experts in their respective fields. Their opinions are to be respected, but no one knows for certain what’s best for someone else. You are the expert at being you, so treat other people’s advice accordingly. Mine included. If you ask for my thoughts about what’s going on for you, I’ll be happy to share them. Just take them for what they are. The ideas and opinions of someone who cares and wants to help, but makes no claim to know what’s best for you.

How Good (Or Bad) Are You at Taking Advice?

If you ask Fran she’ll tell you I’m dreadful at taking advice! We were discussing this recently and she exclaimed, with no little frustration, “You never listen!” I countered that I do listen, I just rarely do what she suggests! Joking aside, my resistance to other people’s advice is rooted in the fact I rarely ask for any, so any advice I’m offered is usually unsolicited. Asking someone’s advice invites them into your situation. That in itself changes things, as I’ve learned from experience. There are exceptions, but I prefer to keep my deliberations to myself and figure things out on my own.

I’m far more likely to follow someone’s example than take their advice. Decluttering is a case in point. Fran’s apartment is a clutter-free haven, tidy whilst still feeling warm and lived-in. It’s something I can only aspire to. A few months ago I cleared the equivalent of several rubbish bins (trash cans) of old clothes that had been lying around for years. It barely touched the surface of what needs to be thrown out, but it did feel good. Financial management is another example. I held a significant amount of money for years in a bank account where it earned negligible interest. Fran’s determination to rationalise her finances gave me the incentive I needed to research my options. The money now resides in a new account earning a respectible level of interest while I consider if there’s a better place for it.

When Is It Appropriate to Offer Advice and When Is It Best Not To?

I believe it’s appropriate to offer advice if you’ve been asked explicitly. It’s inappropriate to impose your opinions on someone who doesn’t want them, especially if you know nothing about them or their present situation. I feel far more comfortable offering suggestions to Fran or other close friends than to someone I barely know. This is partly because I can tailor my suggestions and presentation based on what I know of them, their situation, and our friendship. Above all, it’s important that the person feels able to decline, amend, or challenge my advice, rather than blindly following what I tell them.

This raises the question of responsibility. If someone follows your advice and things turn out poorly for them, who is responsible — you or them? It’s not a trivial question. It’s why professionals are careful about the advice they offer and insure themselves against claims for redress if things go badly.

What Is the Best (Or Worst) Advice You’ve Ever Received?

I’ve made decisions over the years that have turned out other than I’d hoped or desired at the time, but I can’t blame any of them on following poor advice. In fact, I can’t remember ever being given bad advice. (Maybe Fran is right and I don’t listen to any advice, good or bad!)

I mentioned this to Aimee. “I don’t think I’ve had bad advice either,” she replied. “But I wonder if that’s because if someone were to suggest something and you know it wouldn’t work well then you don’t listen or do it. Perhaps it shows a good understanding and sense of direction to establish if the advice is just not right without trialling it.” This makes sense to me. I don’t feel obliged to follow a suggested course of action just because someone told me I should. If it feels wrong, I’ll set it aside.

I can think of two pieces of good advice that have stuck with me. The first is something Fran shared with me early in our friendship. It’s the analogy of holding — and dropping — a hot coal. It comes originally from Eckhart Tolle’s book The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment.

How do you drop a piece of hot coal that you are holding in your hand? How do you drop some heavy and useless baggage that you are carrying? By recognizing that you don’t want to suffer the pain or carry the burden anymore and then letting go of it.

I’ve been known to physically mimic the action of opening my hand to drop something that’s been causing me pain as I walk to work, or on my way to the supermarket. It might sound silly but it works.

The second piece of good advice was offered to me by another dear friend, Louise. As I described in The Gentle Art of Letting Go someone I knew was struggling and I felt utterly unable to offer meaningful support. Louise reminded me that not all the team is on the field at all times. “Keep in mind that your friend is going through her stuff,” she said. “You’re still on her team, just not playing right now.” Her words helped me navigate a difficult and confusing phase in that particular friendship, and informed my concept of supportive disengagement.

Was There a Time When Your Advice Was Really Helpful to Someone Else?

In the Foreword to our book High Tide, Low Tide: The Caring Friend’s Guide to Bipolar Disorder mental health advocate and author Rachel Kelly couched our book’s relevance in terms of the advice it offers.

As someone who has suffered from debilitating depression, and now writes about mental health, there is one question I am nearly always asked by those who come to my talks and workshops. What is my advice for those who are caring for someone with a mental illness? What is the best way to be a true and supportive friend? I’ve often thought if only there was a book I could recommend. Martin Baker and Fran Houston have now written just such a book.

Given Rachel’s background and experience as an ambassador for mental health charities including SANE and Rethink Mental Illness, her endorsement means a great deal. Interestingly, neither Fran nor I think of our book as offering advice. It was written more as a collection of ideas and strategies from which our readers might select what resonates for them. Fran made this explicit in our book’s Epilogue:

How do I help my friend? What should I try? What works? So many choices. So many possibilities. To me this book is less of a memoir than a menu. [...] Choose something. A bit of this. A bit of that. And let that something ease another’s pain.

In Teardrops and Waterfalls I describe a conversation with Fran in which we discussed what it’s like to hold space for a friend who wants to talk about whatever’s going on for them. Fran said she found this overwhelming at times. I offered an analogy.

Imagine you’re standing beside a waterfall. If it’s a small waterfall with a small pool, you can stand close by. If it’s a big waterfall it will have a bigger pool and more spray and splashing. You would stand further back so you can appreciate it without getting wet.

The waterfall analogy is something we both find helpful and refer to from time to time.

I asked two friends if there was anything I’ve offered them by way of advice that they found especially useful. Louise interprets advice the way I do, in terms of suggestions and opinions. “You’ve helped by just listening and offering an opinion on a situation,” she said. “I really appreciate the opinions of like-minded others such as yourself when I’m going through a hard time. Reassurance about a decision, you always offer that. And sometimes you have offered an alternative perspective based on your experiences of similar things. You’ve also often got support materials that you’re able to signpost me to.”

Aimee recalled a time when she asked me to proofread her presentation for a major conference. I noticed a few of the headings were inconsistently capitalised and suggested an online capitalisation tool I use myself. This is a good example of practical advice and demonstrates the importance of offering appropriate guidance in appropriate ways. We both blog in the mental health space but our approaches, workflows, and writing styles are very different. Unless I spot an obvious typo or error in Aimee’s writing, I keep my thoughts or suggestions to myself. She does the same. “You should do it this way” wouldn’t go down well, no matter which of us said it! On this occasion, she’d explicitly asked for my opinion and I felt my contribution was both welcome and appreciated.

Contributions from Others

I’m grateful to everyone who responded to my social media request for thoughts about advice in general, and my five questions in particular. Contributions are presented with only minor edits for clarity.

Advice has an edge to it. “May I make a suggestion” is gentler.
— Fran

My worst advice was from the crisis team when I was self harming. They told me to have a warm bath. I think people relate when they have been through the same as you and can open up more, I could never open up to a professional as it’s all text book talking.
— Joanne

Seconding Joanne’s experience with the bath advice! I actually have a wet room in my home so there’s only a shower so I once told them that if I say I’m having a bath, be more concerned cuz it means I’m hallucinating baths! I wrote a blog post about it called STOP TELLING ME TO TAKE A BATH!” | WHAT TO DO WHEN THEIR ADVICE DOESN’T HELP.
— Aimee

Advice is a delicate thing, I think. It’s about social courtesy, or social dynamics. You have to feel it out. Listening and just being present are really important. I try and let people think things out for themselves.
— Jen.

Always bear in mind when offering advice, that each person has their own “map of the world” and what works for you might not be the right thing for the other person. Try to ask a few questions, listen and respect what you hear, before you start talking. When someone offers you advice, then try to accept it, listen before you decline. Then decide for yourself.
— Charlotte

I’ve thought about it and the first thing that comes to mind (repeatedly) is that it’s VERY important (helpful) to know when not to offer advice and when to offer it. The next thing is, is it advice I would or do take for myself.
— Andrea

When we give advice we need to remember the person is not us, their situations is not ours. I am happy to take advice. I may not follow it, but it’s good to have as it’s a starting place to think about and helps you to begin to deal with the circumstances. Worst advice for me was don’t do it or you can’t do that, although maybe in some situations it may have been the best advice. I was a young people’s support worker and then social worker. I have seen a few now grown up and they have said I helped them through by listening, discussing, and asking them what they wanted long-term and supporting them to work best way to get there. I was a social worker and had to give advice to parents sometimes that they didn’t want to hear, but that was to protect their children.
— Anonymous

First, know the person you are advising. Second, don’t give advice on something you haven’t personally experienced. Third, make sure the advice isn’t given with a negative/criticism kind of connotation. No one likes a know it all lol.
— Jessica

Paul responded to each of my questions at length, which is much appreciated.

What does giving advice mean to you?
When to offer someone advice, and when not to?

There are two scenarios for me. Someone asks me for some help or I can see they need some help and I offer it. With the first scenario obviously there are multiple questions that I could be asked but it usually is in the format “This is what is happening, what do you think?” I then view what I’m hearing [from the perspective that] the person wants to be out of their state of mind or even physical predicament, and what’s the best I can do to work out a plan or set of ideas with them to do that.

The second scenario is where I see somebody who has got something on their mind and they are displaying that so I ask questions. If they don’t want to talk about it I stop but if they do, revert to scenario one.

With both scenarios it is always the default from me that I sympathise. Sometimes the best “giving advice” is simply being there in front of the person, hearing it all out. All of this is outside the family of course. How we do things in our family is completely different. Families are worlds of their own!

How good (or bad) are you at taking advice?

Pretty good because if I am asking anybody for advice it really does mean I have done absolutely everything to try and figure it out what’s bothering me but I can’t. I only ask people who I consider to have good intellectual ability because to be quite honest those sorts of people I believe always do really understand. Currently the only three people I would turn to (as in meet physically) for specific advice for a couple of things that were bugging me a while back are Martin Baker, a guy called Gaz Robinson who lives in York who I knew from the 80s, and Martin Wood a Darlington guy who is upfront and as analytical as they come, which is how I like people to be when I need some advice. I also talk to my two children Miles and Clifford occasionally because they have always been superbright lads, and as they are now past the age 30 mark they have some experience as well. I have definitely picked up some good tips to figure out my own dilemmas from them.

What’s the best (or worst) advice you’ve ever received?

I’ve never had bad advice from anybody because by the time I need advice I really have gone over all the possibilities, but I am still unsure which one of them is the best to get what I want to happen. Occasionally I have been told that all the possibilities I have worked out are probably not good ideas! They were definitely “Ouch” moments but that is the way it has to go sometimes!

A time when your advice was really helpful to someone else.

This is usually when the advice is of the type “Stick in there and you will win through” or “Get out of the situation because you’re wasting your time.” The confidence booster is welcomed and the understanding warning to ditch what is happening is also appreciated.

— Paul

Thank you again to everyone who contributed.

Over to You

In this post I’ve shared my thoughts and experiences concerning advice, and those of others who have been generous with their perspectives. What do you think about giving other people advice? Are you comfortable asking for advice? Who do you trust to approach for advice? I’d love to hear from you, either in the comments below or via our contact page.

 

Photo by Todd Morris at Unsplash.

 

Sometimes We Need to Ask the Questions

“We don’t have the answers to everything, sometimes we just need to ask the questions.” (John Rotter)

The above quotation is taken from an article by John Rotter, Marketing and Communications Assistant at MHFA England. It expresses perfectly why asking questions is such an important aspect of mental health literacy.

This post was inspired by an open letter to me by fellow mental health blogger Aimee Wilson in response to an article I wrote recently about imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and legitimacy. In her letter, Aimee described how important it is to have people she can turn to for support.

Having gone through my mental health journey with my Mum being my main source of support, I think that I now know how essential it is to have the support of another person through your times of struggle and the challenges thrown at you. [....] The difficulty comes in allowing yourself to lean on another person or even to just admit that you need to lean on them!

Something she went on to say caught my attention.

I love that you ask me questions when I’m struggling because it’s much more helpful than you just sitting there and nodding along, pretending to understand.

That meant a lot, not least because Fran and I have long advocated asking questions in the context of caring, supportive relationships. But what kinds of questions are most helpful?

What Do You Need?

Asking your friend what they need is one of the simplest and yet most important questions you can ask. This came up recently in conversation with another mental health blogger, Laura Riordan. We were chatting about how we support friends who live with mental health issues, and Laura said:

Maybe I can just listen instead of making any suggestions. Some people desperately want advice [....] And some just want to be heard.

I agreed wholeheartedly.

Yes, Laura. I’m a believer in not pushing suggestions or advice on people unless they ask for it. What people often need is space to share, safe from judgement. The best thing is simply to ask: what do you need right now?

This is echoed in a line from our book High Tide, Low Tide: The Caring Friend’s Guide to Bipolar Disorder:

Supporting Fran means paying attention to her needs and not assuming I know best. This can be as simple as asking, “What do you need most right now?”

How Is It For You?

For someone like me with no lived experience to draw on, asking questions helps me understand what my friends are going through. That’s what Aimee was talking about when she said she loves that I ask her questions when she is struggling. On that occasion, we were talking about self-harm. I’d asked how it was that sometimes self-harm expresses itself for her as an overdose, sometimes as cutting, sometimes in other ways. Was there a difference, I wondered, in the kind of situations that led to her taking these different actions, what they represented for her, or the effect on her afterwards? Aimee was a little thrown by the questions. I don’t think she had been asked to think about it in quite that way before, but as she wrote in her open letter it was clearly of value to her:

In asking these questions, you’ve helped me to make a better sense of my self-harm and that, is one of the first steps in changing the behaviour and moving forwards in my recovery.

It also helped me learn a little more about what my friend lives with and how she handles things.

Getting Real

Asking questions is not a passive activity. A question invites a response, and you may not get back what you anticipated or are comfortable with. In addition to talking with Aimee about self-harm, conversations with Fran and other friends regularly touch on suicide and suicidal thinking. Things can get real very quickly. Depending on the circumstances, you might want or need to ask further questions or take action. If your friend appears to be struggling, be prepared to ask the important questions.

• Are you feeling suicidal, or thinking of doing something to harm yourself?
• Do you feel you are safe right now?
• Do we need to think about how to help you stay safe?

Also ask how your friend would like you to proceed if you become concerned for their safety. Respect their wishes and opinions, but be clear that you will involve other people or support services if necessary. That way you both know where you stand. We have a selection of crisis lines and support organisations on our Resources page.

Care and Understanding

Questions are not always about crisis, suicide, or self-harm, of course. Asking appropriate questions can let your friend know you are aware of their situation and needs. I described a few such situations in my article 5 Must-Read Rules to Help Your Friend with Anxiety and Bipolar Disorder for Bp Magazine.

I may not have a mental health diagnosis but I struggle too at times. I get stressed, uncertain, frustrated, and stuck. It’s happened quite a lot in the past few months. I’m blessed in having friends who are unafraid to hold things up to the light for me, and that includes asking the kind of questions that challenge me to explore what I think I know, my motives, and expectations. It really helps. Here is an example from a recent chat with Aimee:

Aimee: Hi Marty. How are you?

Marty: I’m OK. I was feeling a bit down over the weekend but am doing better today. I was very busy at work and there were train delays but I’m home now.

Aimee: Aw why do you think you were feeling down?

Marty: After feeling “stuck” for a while, as you know, my writing got going again recently. Our day out in Blyth and joint blogging ideas helped, and the Mental Health First Aid conference I went to. All that gave me a boost. I think what’s happened is that energy has run out of steam a bit. Does that make sense?

Aimee: Of course. Totally understand. Well here’s a little assignment for you...

Aimee invited me to contribute to an article she was writing and shared her draft with me. It helped me shift how I’d been feeling and generated some possible new ways forward. Later, I let her know how much I appreciated the support.

Marty: Thank you for asking if I knew why I’d been feeling down, Aimee. It helped me focus on what might have been behind it. Also, thanks for knowing that giving me a “little assignment” would help!

Aimee: Of course! This friendship isn’t just you being here for me when I’m struggling!

Ask Yourself First

It can be helpful to ask questions, but that doesn’t mean bombarding your friend with them all the time. It’s also important not to come across as insincere, patronising, or condescending. These are sure ways to annoy and alienate someone! If you are at all unsure, take a few moments and ask yourself a few questions before proceeding.

• What do I want to achieve by asking this question?
• Am I inviting my friend to do something, or to share something with me?
• Am I prepared for whatever kind of response I get back, be that positive, negative, partial, uncertain, none at all, or my friend asking me a question in return?

Finally, is this question, and my motive for asking it, kind in mind and heart?

Over to You

What is the best, most insightful question you have ever been asked? What kinds of questions do not help you at all? Have you asked someone a question that made a real difference? Are there times you feel questions are inappropriate or unnecessary? We’d love to hear from you.